On the Israeli pager attack on Hezbollah
One of the best anti terror strategies ever employed. The stuff of Hollywood films.
Ned Ma
Gary Stodel It is called state terror by scholars of terrorism. There is state violence and non-state violence.
Jamus Fundi
Ned Ma it's the best actors who invented today's technology playing and toying with the old technology, and the keepers thinking they are safe.
Ned Ma
Jamus Fundi That's not related to my comment. I am speaking about 'terrorism' academically, i.e. sociologically, historically, politically, etc. The key word is scholars who have written about violence and forms of violence.
Jim Braiden
Terrorism is violence directed at civilians for political purposes.
This was not terrorism.
Ned Ma
Jim Braiden narrowed the definition and ignored who were killled in the attack. That suits his ideological stance towards a state that has used state terror for decades. “Webster's Collegiate Dictionary: 'Terror is an intense, overpowering fear.' Terrorism is ‘the use of terrorizing methods of governing or resisting a government.'
This simple definition has one great virtue, that of fairness. It's air. It focuses on the use of coercive violence, violence that is used illegally, extra-constitutionally, to coerce. And this definition is correct because it treats terror for what it is, whether the government or private people commit it.
“Have you noticed something?
Motivation is left out of it. We're not talking about whether the cause is just or unjust. We're talking about consensus, consent, absence of consent, legality, absence of legality, constitutionality, absence of constitutionality. Why do we keep motives out? Because motives differ. Motives differ and make no difference. The need to be heard is essential. One motivation there.
“The experience of violence by a stronger party has historically turned victims into terrorists. That's what happens to peoples and nations. When they are battered, they hit back. State terror very often breeds collective terror. If you're going to practice double standards, you will be paid with double standards. Don't use it. Don't condone Israeli terror, Pakistani terror, Nicaraguan terror, El Salvadoran terror, [British terror, US terror, Russian terror, French terror], on the one hand, and then complain about Afghan terror or Palestinian terror. It doesn't work. Try to be even-handed. A superpower cannot promote terror in one place and reasonably expect to discourage terrorism in another place.
“The moral revulsion that we must feel against terrorism is selective. We are to feel the terror of those groups, which are officially disapproved. We are to applaud the terror of those groups of whom officials do approve.”
Compare the above to what the UN analysed
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/09/exploding-pagers-and-radios-terrifying-violation-international-law-say-un
Jim Braiden
A lot of verbiage to say nothing.
Terrorism in the modern political sense is the deliberate targeting of civilians for political purposes.
The motive or the cause is immaterial.
Israel has never target civilians period.
The UN ?
Seriously?
You are citing an organization whose hatred and bias against Israel is notorious.
An organization that elected a Nazi war criminal to lead it .
That refused to pass a resolution condemning the Oct 7 atrocities.
That employed 4 rabid anti Semites to “investigate “ Israel.
That has passed more resolutions condemning Israel ( a state that has never initiated a war or started a conflict) than it has against all the rest of the world combined.
The exploding pagers a violation of international law?
Seriously?
A genocidal terrorist organization fearing that its mobile phones are being tapped decides to use pagers to communicate.
The Israeli intelligence services discover the plan and arrange to sell the terrorist organization pagers with a small explosive charge hidden in them.
The terrorist organization buys the pagers .
The terrorist organization distributes the pagers to its members- all terrorists.
Israel detonates the 5000 pagers.
4998 terrorists are killed or maimed.
2 non terrorists are sadly killed.
And the UN and you say that this incredibly targeted attack on a terrorist organization violated international law.
Clear evidence that you and the UN are morally and intellectually bankrupted.
Jim Braiden
Might I suggest that you read this .
https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/
Oh and citing Globalresearchca?
Not a good idea.
Ned Ma
Jim Braiden Verbiage and “Israel has never target civilians period.“ I stopped there. I do not discuss with fundamentalists, and there are plenty of them here. Where is your laughing emojis?
Jim Braiden
Israel has never targeted civilians period.
Prove me wrong.
Ned Ma
Jim Braiden You will always find a justification. You will also dismiss other reports by international organisations because they are against your ideological position. Israel already said that 'there was no innocent civilians'. All Palestinains are combatants in its logic. Not only you ignore what many say about an ongoing genocide, you would deny the killings of civilians in previous wars and protests (in the intifadas, in 2006 and 2008, in 2019 protests. Would you bother to look for the 200+ killed in the green march in 2019? No. Would you bother to go back to the children who used stones against tanks and got killed? No. Even those unarmed who go to collect food are shot. Your ideological stance is also to ignore armed resistance against state violence of the occupier. Oh, I don't think you even consider it occupation. The UN is not a source for you. Amnesty, HRW, UN, Save the Children, Doctors Without Borders, the Lancet, Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer (not leftists), Oxfam, Israeli writer David Grossman, Louis Theroux, the Commissioner General of UNROA… In every war there is a propaganda war. It is for you to find out, but you cannot find out if you had already taken a stance and do not want to question or even doubt. It becomes a belief rather than a fact. This is my last comment.
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