UK: The Telegraph Facebook Page (9)

Not all migration is equal. Europeans and East Asians are an economic net positive. Migration from the Muslim world is an enormous net drain economically and socially has been a catastrophe.

Ned Ma

Luca LoBruno evidence, figures, sources, not prejudices accumulated over the years. Define ‘economic catastrophy' in the 6th economy in the world. If you don't have evidence just use a laughing emoji on my comment. I will understand where you come from. Note that there is no such a thing as 'the Muslim world'.

Luca LoBruno

Ned Ma

I said it was a social catastrophe. Eyes are ears are the evidence.

But it’s also an economic net-negative. 61% of Bengali and Pakistani women have never worked and never intend to. But the economic downsides of Muslim immigration are the least important aspect, by some margin. Islamic migration is eating the social fabric of Europe alive.

Ned Ma

Luca LoBruno Eyes and tears are the evidence.” You are exhibiting lack of any academic or professional past or present. When dealing with such a phenomenon one has to consult books, research centres, universities, government's websites, statistics, etc. not prejudice. You are not even reflecting some self-study. Many British Muslims own and operate businesses, contributing billions of pounds to the UK economy and creating numerous jobs according to UK Parliament.

A report by Equi estimates that British Muslims contribute £70 billion annually to the UK economy through income, business activity, and charitable giving according to UK Parliament.

https://equi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Equi-Economic-Contribution-Report.pdf

As of low unemployment and poverty among Muslims in the UK, one has to refer to the causes, i.e. the similar socio-economic background the black people have faced over decades: lack of opportunity, lack of education, descrimination, etc. that lead to marginalisation and refusal of integration. You exclude though those Muslims who are professionals in institutions, in governments, in hospitals and universities, the businesses owned by Muslims, the textile factories …the rich and the poor, etc.

Take the 2011 riots on the UK. The London School of Economics made a long report based on research. You should read that report by an institution ranked as the dorst social science uni in Europe. Will that change your mind an iota or make you question? No. Your belief is stronger.

In France, for instance, someone with an Arab surname is likely to see their job application go straight in the bin. The unemployment of Bengali and Pakistani women is high (48%, not 61%). Have you asked yourself why? Have you done a reasearch?Some parts of Spain have unemployment of between 17-28%. One needs to look for the factors, not using the eyes. Even a child's eyes ask questions.

There is history to everything. But you are not interested in facts and haitorical reserach. You have already made up your made up your mind. Myths have been piled into your head (since you were a child): immigrants, 'Islam', 'other cultures', 'communism', and probably China too is an enemy.

Luca LoBruno

Ned Ma

I see it as a purely risk-reward ratio in terms of migration patterns from the Islamic world. For me, and increasing numbers of Europeans, the associated risks really aren’t worth the undoubted benefits that some migrants provide economically and socially.

Ned Ma

Luca LoBruno You are not engaging, refuting facts, ignored most of my comment…you are asserting what you belief in. Again, there is no such a thing as 'the Islamic world'.

Luca LoBruno

Ned Ma

You’re probably right. I’m strongly convinced on this subject and am not willing to change my mind at this stage of the game. I’d prefer our cultural parting to be as amicable as possible though. Have zero desire for unrest or blood lust.

Ned Ma

Luca LoBruno 'have zero desire for unrest or blood lust'. I hope so. Your first comment though reflects a person who is vulnerable to the current neo-fascist movements.

Luca LoBruno

Ned Ma

Probably true. But I hope we can part ways peacefully. I care about European civilisation and don’t want it to be reduced to primal blood-hunts. Would be unbecoming of a noble culture. Ideal solution would be for both of us to realise this isn’t going to work and part ways, with full property recompenses.

Ned Ma

Luca LoBruno Yes, here is my last comment that I hope will make you think away from what myths you have told since school. 'European civilisation' is not just civilisation is has been both civilisation and barbarism. As a Germany philospher put it “Every document of civilisation is at the same time a document of barbarism.” "[I]n large measure," as Geoffrey Parker has observed, " 'the rise of the West' depended upon the exercise of force, upon the fact that the military balance between the Europeans and their adversaries overseas was steadily tilting in favour of the former;. . . [T]he key to the Westerners' success in creating the first truly global empires between 1500 and 1750 depended upon precisely those improvements in the ability to wage war which have been termed 'the military revolution.' " The expansion of the West was also facilitated by the superiority in organization, discipline, and training of its troops and subsequently by the superior weapons, transport, logistics, and medical services resulting from its leadership in the Industrial Revolution. The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion (to which few members of other civilizations were converted) but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

—Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilisation and the Remaking of the World Order, 1996, p. 51. Think also Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Vietnam, Latin America, ongoing genocide, the Belgian Congo genocide, the Holocaust, the Atlantic slave trade, Italian fascism, American racism, German Genocide in Namibia, the British gulag in Kenya, the French in Algeria….

The Qarmatians (Al-Qaramita)

By Nadeem Mahjoub Documentary film-makers G. Troeller and M. C. Defarge once asked a cabinet minister in South Yemen, why socialistic ideas were so readily acceptable in that part of the Arab world. He replied: “Because we have been communists for a thousand years! My mother was Qarmatian.” Official Muslim scholars and clerics, and many so-called moderates (whether individuals or groups) oppose sedition ( fitna ). Tensions and contradictions in society should be solved peacefully and even if the ruler was unjust and impious, it is generally accepted he should still be obeyed, for any kind of order is better than anarchy and sedition. “The tyranny of a sultan for a hundred years causes less damage than one year’s tyranny exercised by the subjects against one another.” Revolt was justified only against a ruler who clearly went against the command of God and His prophet.” 1 Here we look at not what happened in the minds of people who call for calm, oppose dissent and preach the re...

Capitalism

Some of this reminds me of how five or six years ago in a class of seven students in a UK elite university three of them (two Germans and one British) were in favour of a "benevolent dictator" (in the Arab context). The bloody horrors of Pinochet showed how capitalism will react when it's threatened

Cairo C. 1900-1934 The accurate translation for Arabic meaning of Cairo is "the invincible".

"If you don't attack the economic power of the elite, soon or later it will attack you." That's what the Arab uprisings, for instance, were unable/failed to do. K for Karl – Revolution (episode 3)

"A second position argues against transition, which is transitology itself. It is well known—especially among economists—as the sudden mobilization of a considerable mass of experts who are generally foreigners,generally Western, who come to preach the good word and to propose ready-made models of democracy. The science of the transition has become a financial windfall, a market. And the word transition has of course become a reflex of language, a term of reference, a call for tenders ( appel d’offres ) to which the whole society was supposed to respond. Consequently, the reticence that one can express is the following: our history is framed, transition is a heteronomy. Every democratic revolution is henceforth supposed to take a unique, imposed path, which is, at the same time, indistinctly democratic and liberal (or neoliberal). A more or less non-“negotiable” package. It is necessary to highlight the imposed character (and imposed from the outside) of this coming to t...

"In the same way that Robinson [Crusoe] was able to obtain a sword, we can just as well suppose that [Man] Friday might appear one fine morning with a loaded revolver in his hand, and from then on the whole relationship of violence is reversed: Man Friday gives the orders and Crusoe is obliged to work. . . . Thus, the revolver triumphs over the sword, and even the most childish believer in axioms will doubtless form the conclusion that violence is not a simple act of will, but needs for its realization certain very concrete preliminary conditions, and in particular the implements of violence; and the more highly developed of these implements will carry the day against primitive ones. Moreover, the very fact of the ability to produce such weapons signifies that the producer of highly developed weapons, in everyday speech the arms manufacturer, triumphs over the producer of primitive weapons. To put it briefly, the triumph of violence depends upon the production of a...

Varoufakis "speaks of how great it was to have the support of Larry Summers, Norman Lamont, and other figures on the Right, but it was support for whom, for what, and in whose class interests? Class analysis is far from the foreground of the picture sketched out here. Closed rooms and class war

"Egypt is no longer the heart of the Arab world"

US

Written in June: The candidate who emerged from this jumble of discontent was the man who promised to do the least. His party is now preparing to give us a national election that will be little more than a referendum on the hated Donald Trump. Finally we have a climate in which the American public would unquestionably choose dramatic change were it offered to them, and the party of change has contrived to ensure that it will not be offered. Instead our choice is between two elderly and conservative white men, both with a history of stretching the truth, both with sexual harassment accusations hanging over them, and neither representing any possibility of energetic democratic reform. The old order has been miraculously rescued once again. Such is the climate of opinion in America that, with the right leader, remarkable things would be possible. Instead we are presented with Joe Biden, an affable DC veteran with a hand in many of the defining disasters of the last 30 years: worker-c...

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